The Trans Community in Tech, a Q&A with Melanie Thompson.
This Trans Visibility day, we wanted spotlight a voice of the trans community.
We’ve been lucky enough to sit down with Melanie Thompson, CTO at ammonite, to talk about her experiences as a trans person, a woman and leader in tech, as well as her views on how we can work to move forward as an industry, for progress and true inclusion.
All our thanks to Melanie for her time and for sharing her story. Let’s jump into the interview.
How has your experience in the workplace and your experience as a leader changed over the course of your transition? What’s the shift in the way people perceive you?
I’m writing this on International Trans Day of Visibility and reflecting on the ways transness is received in the workplace. I’m very lucky where I work with ammonite because their support has been so considerate and proactive – they really put thought into supporting my journey and I’m super grateful.
Elsewhere, I encountered real opposition and unfriendliness. Despite superficial acknowledgements and reassurances that it “wasn’t an issue for them”, anti-trans office “banter” increased as a direct challenge to my identity.
I still remember the visceral hatred and sneer on the face of a former manager who tried to escape a HR complaint about anti-trans office jokes by saying, “It’s ok, I can't be homophobic! I used to be gay!”. That he phrased it in terms of homophobia and not transphobia was telling – he refused to acknowledge my identity was a thing. He wouldn’t use any trans terminology, he wouldn’t engage with me about it.
Elsewhere, I experienced bullying when a manager told me he wouldn’t call me by a new name and it was too much work to change it on employee records, should I choose to change it by deed poll. It was too hard for me not to internalise a lot of shame about being trans because of that interaction and it set my transition back. I didn’t legally change my name until last year, but it’s been a common experience for me that employers will start by saying “it’s ok to be trans”, then follow it with “we’re not prepared to address you differently or make any changes to our behaviour or administration to accommodate you”. They will even use HR processes to grind you down and humiliate you, and it’s aggressive and painful.
On the other hand, the experience of being trans has made me. When I encounter discrimination, I feel sorry for people for underestimating me, and I carry that power into my tech career. I’m not shy anymore, and, combined with my technical knowledge and ammonite’s growing presence as industry thought leaders, I’m building a reputation as a force to be reckoned with.
What is a positive aspect, memorable or inspiring moment, of your experience as a trans person in tech?
My position with ammonite has been really affirming. Right from the beginning they supported my transition and I’ve been really grateful for the pastoral help they’ve provided.
I’ve also been privileged to participate in a panel for Gendered Intelligence around being trans in the workplace and that was certainly a real blessing for me – I hope I was able to help some younger trans people too!
I had a great experience as part of cohort 4 of the OXFO Accelerator, and it felt really good to represent trans people to the tech industry mavens.
The PIMFA award we won for Diversity and Inclusion was a real highlight for me and proof ammonite and I are making a difference.
The tech industry is male dominated and like many industries trans people are hugely underrepresented.
The big question: Why?
You’ve said before, the female and trans candidates are there, so what are your thoughts on the underlying system which prevents them from being hired, and more so from reaching senior positions?
The recruitment pipeline seems to default to the position that technical competencies are traditionally male traits, but in all honesty it’s not just recruiters – they provide candidates they think will stand a good chance of securing contracts. Companies should have better hiring policies, with more support from shareholders and directors for hiring a workforce representative of modern Britain.
Tech is one of the few industries where trans people are gaining representation, possibly because it’s a non-traditional industry. Remote working has really helped the trans tech community too, because we don’t have to worry about people being angry which gendered facilities we use, and the concept of ‘appropriate workwear’ has evolved during the pandemic.
It’s not going fast enough though, because the tech industry has an overall diversity problem, and still finds it hard to recognise the achievements of women, LGBTQI people and POC. For all its reputation for being innovative, tech is socially conservative, and sees a contrast between “ordinary” developers who don’t have cultural, sexual or gender identities, and those potentially dangerous people who do. There needs to be an active effort to change this – we all need to commit to listening to and appreciating each other's experiences. If we can’t understand why someone is angry at the way they’ve been treated, maybe it’s an ‘us’ problem, not a ‘them’ one?
As a trans person, do you feel that not having been raised female, or not presenting as female earlier in life gave you more access to disciplines, skills or environments seen traditionally as male spaces?
How might this be either beneficial or detrimental for people in terms of careers?
I feel if I had been raised female, I wouldn’t have had the intense struggles I had during my youth. It would have saved a lot of head and heartaches if I could have had puberty blockers and explored my identity earlier, but it wasn’t an option for me and, while people actively steered me away from exploring my feminine side, nobody I knew thought trans was a thing in the 90s, so, while now my transition seems like it was inevitable and it was something I always wanted, it was never something I thought was possible.
I guess I did initially have greater access to tech environments as a male-presenting coder, because tech is still seen as a male space. There is also something about my problem-solving style that seems to really irritate male tech leads! One example is I tend to see truth in softer shades and don’t apply the Law of the Excluded Middle – that if something is true, its opposite is untrue – to engineering problems. In fact, it’s a good general practice to never do this in applied fields! As a result, I am never 100% certain and don’t care to be, whereas many engineers will leap in with absolute certainty about things they know nothing about, then explain it to the nearest woman. Even when I presented as male, I was always the woman in that situation, quite often receiving an explanation of a problem for which I had just demonstrated the solution.
I’m also usually just not that competitive, and I care about solutions and efficient communication more than underlining my personal role, which freaks many people in male spaces out. They feel a constant drive to compete born of fear of being replaced or losing opportunities, and when you don’t get sucked into that paradigm, they're weird to you. They will try to other you in group discussions and are very performative about office hierarchies. I can’t be bothered with any of that, but not playing those games has definitely held my career back.
Your background is really interesting. As well as your education in Cyber Security, you completed a BFA at Goldsmiths.
We’re interested to know what the gender balance was like in these environments and how it differs in your experience between disciplines of Art and Technology?
Cyber Security definitely had a “boys club” culture where I did not fit in. The office humour was frequently disgusting and misogynist, but the fault was mostly with the managers who did not attend the office and encouraged immature, “laddish” behaviour.
Goldsmiths was a strange and lovely place, full of diagnosable odd people, trying extremely hard to go even madder. The focus was theory, so I spent 3 years thinking and learning about how to have good ideas, which is a very hard thing, and I’m really glad I had that time to reflect.
Art and technology are often seen as opposites, but I find creativity in problem solving is a skill many developers feel superiority in by a kind of birth right and I beat them at it over and over. The unconventional thought patterns I developed at art school make me great at everything from product design to systems architecture, and if I’m slightly mad because of them, nobody seems to mind!
Can you give us an insight into the impact of everyday challenges faced by trans people among colleagues such as misgendering, deadnaming or inappropriate comments, and the adverse effect these have on trans individuals, which people may not be aware of?
Like I say, I’m very fortunate my colleagues get it, but the most hurtful thing is when people decide not to get it.
That can kill your confidence and the only way out is to leave a work environment like that.
What are some examples of microaggressions against trans people that you’ve experienced or are aware of within the community?
“When are you going to have surgery?” is a question I get asked a lot, as is “how far along are you with your transition? I guess you’ve just started?”
People ask my judgement on the transgender equivalent of the trolley problem, and expect me to know the answers on behalf of the trans community, and I get frustrated with gender politics – being trans is not justified because of some theorist or university text – being trans is real because I am real and I’m a trans person.
So, I’m really disheartened by people who refer to the “trans debate”. There really isn’t one. There have always been trans people and there have been laws that protect us for a long time, but the “debate” is always framed around the need to protect people from us, and that encourages violence against us and a perceived “trans threat”. It’s even known to be harmful to trans people to talk about it that way, as this gay times article shows.
What are some resources, communities, platforms or strategies that you would recommend to members of the trans community who are experiencing challenges in the workplace?
Gendered Intelligence are great. The Transgender Issue by Shon Faye is a great read and covers things very comprehensively. Trans Teen Survival Guide by Owl and Fox Fisher is a great resource for adults as well as teens, and I also love Fox’s work as an artist and have several prints! Meg-John Barker has a series of graphic novel-style guides you can get from here. Paris Lees wrote What It Feels Like For A Girl, which is a novel, but contains really good depictions of transgender and trans-femme issues.
More importantly, what would be your foremost piece of advice for businesses and employers in regard to creating truly inclusive cultures, and working to end bias and discrimination?
Listen to us! Be open to change and learning about the trans experience. Don’t say things like “trans people aren’t an issue here”, because being trans is a long, difficult, expensive, and frequently humiliating experience for us. Be a trans-ally, because the NHS is not trans-friendly and trans healthcare is difficult to get and self-advocate for; the media is not supportive, and we are often at risk of violence, so be aware it takes a level of mental toughness to walk this path.
Do you have anything to say to people in the workplace who want to be accepting but struggle with terminology or a lack of knowledge, what’s a good way to educate themselves?
I err on the side of taking things in the spirit they’re meant, and I think too much policing around language just alienates people who might otherwise be good friends and colleagues. Despite the shrillness of the anti-trans movement, most people are nice so they deserve to be treated with the kind assumption they mean well.
On the subject of education, we think it’s important that we don’t place the burden of educating others on the shoulders of minority, disadvantaged or underrepresented groups. Have you felt this pressure in your career, and what do you think is the best way to avoid it?
I have certainly felt pressure to be the spokesperson for trans people in other work situations, but ammonite are very discerning employers and have never forced me to be the ‘token trans person’!
I do want to be an advocate for trans people in tech, although I would prefer if I could just be a person in tech who is trans and there was no need for advocacy. I think more representation at all industry levels is the key.
On the importance of language; it can be an obstacle as well as a useful tool.
What are the problems that arise where colleagues lack vocabulary such as words like Cis, Trans, Transition, Non Binary or Non Conforming, and any other examples that may come to mind?
The minimum I require is people use my pronouns, which are she, her and they, and use the name I told them. Other than that, I prefer “trans” to “transgender” and never “transexual”, but these are recent conventions. If we’re getting really particular, I do think cis is a necessary description, not a slur, and I’m trans and a woman, not a “transwoman” - because nobody says “ciswoman”.
I do occasionally get people who refer to me as non-binary or non-conforming and that is a micro-aggression. Some people are non-binary, but I’m not, although I sometimes present as non-binary when I go to the gym or shopping because my transition is a process.
Would you encourage colleagues to equip themselves with the right words and businesses to encourage this?
I would within limits – I don’t want a work handbook of “allowed” phrases because language evolves and words acquire new meanings and you can’t stop that.
What’s the importance of visibility and representation, and what are its limits?
It’s important to raise more awareness about the trans community, but in terms of their challenges, how true is it to say that simply shining a light on something does not make it better?
There’s plenty of light being shone on trans people and some people seem to spend their whole lives worrying about us! That doesn’t mean they’re shining it with positive intentions! Quite a few famous people have dedicated their lives and media resources to destroying us, which is dumb because we’ve always been here and we’re not going anywhere.
The situation for trans healthcare is consistently terrible, and the increased scrutiny on trans people isn’t changing that for us. Obstructions are everywhere and NHS doctors don't always understand their obligations or the law – it's often left to us to educate them. Things like “Shared Care’ so your GP can prescribe your medication on behalf of a private provider, are at the discretion of the surgery, and apparently cost them money they have to budget for.
Increased awareness of trans issues has also not yet percolated into understanding in the NHS at local authority level, and transitioning is still just not possible for many people solely via the NHS because the burden of proof is so ridiculously high and waiting lists so long. The process is not there to support you, it’s deliberately difficult to haze and shame you into giving up. Many people are afraid to transition that way – I know I am!
So far as upper limits for visibility and representation, I don’t think there are any. People used to, and still, say about LGB people, “it’s fine what they do at home, but I don’t want it shoved in my face!”, and it’s nonsense that comes from bigotry. My being and being visible doesn’t hurt anyone. It’s not ‘entitlement’ to want to not hide. Pride exists for a reason!
Thank you so much to Melanie for sharing her insight.
Melanie has previously appeared on our podcast Host Radio to discuss female leadership in the episode When Feminism Meets Finance. Be sure to give it a listen if you haven’t had a chance!